Truly honored to have been interviewed by my dear pal Deborah Farone for her upcoming book through Practising Law Institute (PLI) – Breaking Ground: How Successful Women Lawyers Build Thriving Practices, to be released January 2026.
(The quote in the graphic – taken from the book – references my, er, obsession with social media. 😅)
About the book: “Breaking Ground: How Successful Women Lawyers Build Thriving Practices is based on more than 60 in-depth interviews with leading women rainmaking lawyers, law firm chairs, business development experts, and academics from across the United States, Europe, Africa and Asia. The book explores how women at the top of their profession cultivate client relationships, develop new business, and build sustainable practices—while navigating the particular challenges of the legal world. Through personal stories, candid advice, and actionable strategies, the book offers a roadmap for lawyers at every stage of their careers who want to grow their practices and build trusted relationships with clients.”
Ever wonder why some marketers thrive in law firms while others crash and burn?
In this episode of Educated Spaghetti: Marketing Ideas That Stick, Lise Anne Schwartz and Roy Sexton, Chief Marketing Officer at Vedder Price, dish up ideas on building consensus for professional services marketing projects. They discuss the biggest mistakes of would-be consensus leaders, why Roy loves the word “pilot,” and his surprising take on creating lasting agreement. Plus, Roy shares his favorite resource and secret sauce for getting people to support a new project.
In this episode:
(00:00) The number one thing holding companies back
(05:05) Childhood experiences that shaped a consensus builder
(10:26) Pilot strategy that turns law firm skeptics into advocates
(17:41) When to proceed without consensus (and how to do it safely)
(23:54) Why trying to leave a legacy guarantees you won’t
(32:06) Roy’s secret sauce: listen more than you talk
About the Host
Lise Anne Schwartz is an experienced brand strategist and writer known for creating authentic, original work that audiences remember. With 20 years in professional services marketing, she brings a unique blend of perspectives as a former lawyer, journalist, copywriter, and pastry chef. Her strong focus on storytelling and user-driven communications, combined with skills in surfacing key insights from stakeholder and audience interviews, makes her exceptional at bringing complex ideas to life. Having conducted over 100 buyer interviews and earned degrees from Northwestern University and Columbia Law School, Lise Anne regularly writes on professional marketing topics.
About Right Hat
Right Hat is a marketing and design partner driven by curiosity, courage, and optimism to help clients take their communications to new heights. Specializing in communicating the value of complex, intangible offerings like professional services, education, and tech solutions, they serve as brand strategists, website designers, creators of sales tools, and extensions of in-house teams. Through deep industry knowledge and determination to push past the ordinary, Right Hat combines design, content, and digital strategies to bring powerful brands to life with fresh ideas that help clients stand out in crowded markets.
Roop Raj 💕 – thank you for the gracious shout out at the 4:29 mark, but more importantly thank you for your candor – that’s the leadership we all need. Compassionate, pragmatic, empathetic, calming. Grateful for your message.
Joe Giovannoli was joined by Roy Sexton, Director of Marketing at Clark Hill, and Jack Prince, Business Profitability Consultant at CRI Simple Numbers, for an insightful discussion on data-driven marketing budget decisions for law firms.
In our latest recap, we dive into the essential tips shared during the session, focusing on how to craft a marketing budget that ensures impactful and measurable results.
The conversation focused on key performance metrics, effective allocation of marketing spend, and aligning those investments with firm goals.
Marketers need to own their journey and be proactive in demonstrating ROI to firm leadership. This may involve collecting your own data and metrics to show the impact of marketing initiatives.
Benchmarking marketing budgets and spending against industry standards and peer firms can help make the case for increased investment. Reaching out to marketing peers can provide valuable data points.
Aligning marketing goals and spending with the firm’s overall growth strategy is crucial. Understanding the firm’s plans for adding attorneys or expanding practice areas can inform the marketing approach.
Developing a multi-year marketing strategy with a mix of branding, calls-to-action, and experimental initiatives can help demonstrate a thoughtful, data-driven approach to leadership.
“It’s a problem when people are forced to seem or be positive in situations where it’s not natural or when there’s a problem that legitimately needs to be addressed that can’t be addressed if you don’t deal with the fact that there is distress or need,” University of Michigan Ann Arbor psychologist Dr. Stephanie Preston explains in a recent interview with Inc. “Toxic Positivity Will Make You Miserable: What Is It, and Are You Guilty of Spreading It?”
On this episode, Roy and Dr. Preston unpack the business lessons professionals might gain from her extensive work in cognition and cognitive neuroscience – how leaders can create healthy, high performing cultures that enhance retention through fulfillment and authentic engagement.
Dr. Preston is a professor of Psychology in the Cognition and Cognitive Neuroscience Area at the University of Michigan and is currently a co-ombuds for the faculty at Michigan. She has a master’s degree and a PhD in behavioral neuroscience from the University of California at Berkeley, where she studied how animals make decisions about storing their food. She was a postdoctoral fellow at the Department of Neurology at the University of Iowa College of Medicine, where she studied human empathy and altruism, financial decision making, and hoarding behavior. Dr. Preston’s research is highly interdisciplinary and uses a variety of methods to investigate how the brain and body evolved in social and caregiving species to make complex decisions through simpler mechanisms that humans share with other species. She specializes in studying how emotions impact decisions in the face of distress and need, in decisions about material goods, and in related applied issues in consumerism, critical thinking, altruistic donation, and sustainability.
“…We should avoid setting up a false choice that pits business development against community development; we need both. The private sector creates jobs that grow the tax base to fund improved services, just as amenities like transit and parks lead to more vibrant communities that attract and retain talent. …We need it all — but the best way to raise the revenue needed to pay for it all is through private sector growth — and that requires a long-term economic development strategy that incentivizes business to locate here and doesn’t change each legislative session.” Detroit Regional Partnership President & CEO Maureen Donohue Krauss observes in a recent opinion piece penned for Crain’s Detroit Business “Economic development shouldn’t be an ‘either-or’ proposition.”
On this episode, Roy and Maureen talk about her successful career in economic development, the lessons she’s learned along the way, the crucial work of developing one’s network and personal brand, and how to still have some fun along the way!
Maureen serves as the President and Chief Executive Officer of the Detroit Regional Partnership, a leading regional economic development nonprofit serving the Detroit 11-county region. Krauss is an accomplished economic development officer with a demonstrated history of leadership in economic development, nonprofit, and government and extensive experience guiding international companies to successful location decisions and growth in the United States.
Legal marketing can be tough, but does it have to be? Want to uncover the secrets to thriving in this challenging field? Curious about successful legal marketing strategies?
Thrilled to have been interviewed recently by Ashley Robinson, Owner of Green Cardigan Marketing. In this interview we discuss tips on how to shine in the legal marketing field.
Watch the full interview where Ashley and I dive into the dos and don’ts of legal marketing!
And thank you, Ashley Mejido, for all your lovely support here!
Roy Sexton, Director of Marketing at Clark Hill, has been named one of Michigan’s 2024 Most Valuable Professionals by Corp! Magazine. The recognition highlights Sexton’s significant contributions to his firm and the broader business community in Michigan.
With over 25 years of experience in marketing, communications, business development, and strategic planning, Sexton leads Clark Hill’s marketing, branding, and communications efforts. His work emphasizes collaboration with a skilled team to deliver exceptional service to clients. “We recruit and develop talented individuals and empower them to contribute to our rich diversity of legal and industry experience,” Sexton stated.
Sexton was named one of INvolve People’s 2023 Top 100 OUTstanding LGBTQ+ Executives internationally. He was listed in Crain’s Detroit Notable LGBTQ in Business in 2021 and Notable Leaders in Marketing in 2023, and he was a Michigan Lawyers Weekly Unsung Legal Hero in 2018.
Sexton’s leadership extends to his role as the 2023 International President of the Legal Marketing Association (LMA), a position he has used to prioritize diversity, equity, and inclusion (DEI). “I’m proud of how DEI has become so fully integrated into my professional efforts in this world. As international president of the Legal Marketing Association (LMA) in 2023 and as immediate past president this year, we have kept inclusion front and center,” Sexton said. Under his guidance, the LMA has launched member resource groups and enhanced its inclusive talent pipeline.
His efforts at Clark Hill have also led to notable recognitions, including Mansfield Certification for DEI efforts and awards from the Managing Partners’ Forum for marketing campaigns focused on values, diversity, and inclusion. Sexton’s team has been instrumental in advancing the firm’s digital and social media presence, producing strategically organized content for clients and prospects.
Sexton is also active outside his professional responsibilities. He serves on the board of Mosaic Youth Theatre of Detroit and is a published author of two books. Additionally, he hosts the monthly Expert Webcast series “All the World’s YOUR Stage: Authentic Culture Drives Authentic Growth,” where he discusses inclusion, allyship, authenticity, and branding with nationally recognized executives.
Reflecting on his career, Sexton emphasized the importance of thoughtful communication and collaboration. “Always take the pause. This is advice my wonderful boss, our Clark Hill Chief Marketing and Business Development Officer Susan Ahern, has imparted on me regularly,” he commented. He also shared personal wisdom from his late mother: “Tell people what they mean to you in the moment when it will mean something to them.”
“Playing comedy is hell. The necessity to have an audience love you is perhaps more overwhelming than in any other form of entertainment. With singing, dancing, acting you don’t know until it’s over if you’ve had acceptance or rejection. The comic knows sooner. The audience laughs or it doesn’t.” – Imogene Coca
One might describe marketing and business development similarly. In fact, there is one unicorn in this industry who is adept at BOTH: Brenda Pontiff. We are thrilled that Brenda is joining host Roy Sexton to talk about how business development and stand-up comedy are in fact two great tastes that taste great together!
Born and raised in Texas, Brenda Pontiff left for graduate school in Kansas and wound up touring the country with the Complex Improv Theater. She returned home and began working on her stand-up comedy skills at The Houston Comedy Workshop’s Comixh Annex, the infamous club that spawned the likes of Bill Hicks and Sam Kinison. A few years later, she moved to Los Angeles and became a New Face at the famed Hollywood Improv. She was also a regular at Igby’s and toured as a feature act for franchise clubs including Punchlines, FunnyBones, and Laff Stops. She took a 14-year break in the early 2000s to focus on her global business development career but has happily returned to bring her Texas meets California perspective to the stage. Brenda believes comedy is like the Mafia, you can never leave.
During said global business development career, Brenda founded Partner Track Academy after years of watching young accountants and lawyers, often part of a group challenged with inclusion barriers, panic over business development expectations related to making partner. So often firms’ marketing staff members are not trained to support non-partners’ revenue generation efforts or they simply do not have the bandwidth to do so. This missing component can be filled through individual, customized coaching or periodic workshops and presentations that provide tools, tips, and best practices that lead to improved networking habits, client satisfaction, revenue growth, and ultimately, a coveted seat at the partners’ table.
Brenda has:
· More than 25 years in accounting and law firm sales and marketing.
· Sold services on behalf of an AmLaw 100 firm, exceeding sales and new client acquisition goals for almost eight years.
· Worked as a professional speaker, stand-up comic, writer, and actress, winning several national awards.
· Created a new sales process for a Big Four accounting firm, taking revenues from zero to $3.7 MM in the first year.
· Led a Big Four sales support team during the demise of Arthur Andersen, winning 67% of the regional client base while competing against three other international accounting firms.
· Maintained a 100% success rate while working as a Big Four global strategist to retain critical, at-risk clients.
· Created a cross-selling client team that increased an AmLaw 200 firm’s revenue by $900,000 through one pitch meeting.
· Spoken frequently at association events and corporate retreats regarding account-centric methodologies, best practices for networking at conferences, diversity and inclusion change management, harnessing stress for better productivity, navigating the book of business demand, and embracing resiliency.
Thank you, Clark Hill and Corp! Magazine, for this recognition. It truly means the world. I do the best I can to focus on helpfulness and team-building and community and celebrating the authenticity in everyone, so a nod like this really puts the wind in my sails. I’m grateful I get to work for such an incredible organization as Clark Hill as well as support my professional community in the Legal Marketing Association. I’m truly a fortunate soul!
And thank you, Joel Epstein, Leslie Smithson, Jennifer Kluge, Alexis Yaeger (Jakowinicz), for your friendship and support on this. I appreciate you all very much!
From INvolve – The Inclusion People: “Can you recognize myths and misconceptions from reality? 💡 For Pride Month 2024, we spoke to three of our 2023 Outstanding Role Models who debunked some misconceptions and myths about LGBTQ+ communities. Hear what they have to say here.
“Hear from: Roy Sexton, Director of Marketing, Clark Hill; Joelle Archer, Vice-President Research Creative Suite, Morgan Stanley; Deon Pillay CMgr MCMI, Head of Marketing Technology Enablement and Governance, Legal & General Investment Management (LGIM) … who are using this space to debunk misconceptions.
“Allies – you are crucial for change. Take on board the learnings that these Role Models are sharing and consider how you can best avoid slipping into biases, or perpetuating misconceptions and also how you can leverage your power, influence and platform to support and elevate your LGBTQ+ colleagues.”
TRANSCRIPT for my contribution: So for me, at least in my lived experience the last few years where I’ve had some increasingly visible leadership roles, it’s that well-meaning allies think I am open to unsolicited advice.
Truth of the matter is, it has taken me 51 years to get to the place of authenticity, where I feel comfortable in my own skin, and when allies come forward and try to manage me for style, offering me points on how I dress, or how I speak or how I use social media or how visible I am …
It’s not helpful. It’s actually debilitating.
What we really want is support on substantive issues and opportunities where we can be present with our authentic selves.
So if you are thinking that as a gay man, I’m interested in your advice on how to dress for success?
