9Sail’s “Tip of the Law” podcast – “Harnessing Strategic Focus in Legal Marketing” with host Joe Giovannoli and guest yours truly … #lma24 #lmamkt

Thank you, 9Sail and Joe Giovannoli! Appreciate all you do for our profession and our community …

Join us on the latest episode of the Tip of the Law podcast, where host Joe Giovannoli sits down with Roy Sexton, Director of Marketing at Clark Hill and past president of the Legal Marketing Association – LMA International board. Discover how Roy’s unique journey from English major, theater practitioner, and healthcare exec to legal marketing has shaped his innovative approach.

In this episode, Roy shares invaluable insights on:

🔹 Strategic focus in legal marketing
🔹 Building expertise and credibility
🔹 The importance of internal support and storytelling

Don’t miss out on Roy’s expert tips to elevate your legal marketing strategies and drive meaningful results.

Listen here.

Full episode description …

On a recent episode of the Tip of the Law podcast, host Joe Giovannoli was joined by legal marketer Roy Sexton, Director of Marketing at Clark Hill Law and past president of the Legal Marketing Association. Roy has decades of experience in the legal marketing field and offered some invaluable insights into how firms can maximize their efforts. 

One key takeaway was the importance of strategic focus. Roy emphasized that firms need to analyze their data and prioritize the practice areas that have the highest revenue potential, rather than trying to please every attorney equally. Marketing dollars and resources are best spent amplifying the messaging around top revenue generators. 

Roy also stressed the importance of attorneys establishing themselves as subject matter experts. By publishing content that builds expertise in their specialty fields, attorneys can signal to potential clients the areas a firm specializes in. This includes posting about events, speaking engagements, and podcast appearances on platforms like LinkedIn. Not only that, but by promoting podcast clips and interviews on social media, the attorneys perpetuate the marketing cycle and raise awareness for all parties.

When it comes to content, Roy said repetition, focus, and quality are often where firms fall short. Firms must consistently repeat high-quality messages around a select few priority topics to truly make an impact. Another best practice- and Roy’s takeaway tip for legal marketers- is creating a weekly digest highlighting recent marketing activities and efforts. This engages the internal team while giving marketers newsworthy content.

Overall, Roy provided many thought-provoking insights that firms can apply to strengthen their strategies. By analyzing data, prioritizing key areas, empowering attorneys as experts, and optimizing efforts, firms can maximize the impact of their marketing investments. 

Key takeaways:

  1. Law firms should strategically focus their marketing efforts and resources on the practice areas that have the highest revenue potential rather than trying to please all attorneys equally. 
  2. Attorneys can build expertise and credibility by publishing content on their own profiles that establishes them as subject matter experts in their fields of practice.
  3. Law firms need to incorporate repetition, focus, and strategy into their marketing plans in order to achieve success. 
  4. Creating a weekly digest of marketing activities is an effective way for marketers to keep the internal firm updated on efforts while also giving them content to engage with.

“How people color in the lines can be very different.” Digital Marketing Institute’s Will Francis interviews yours truly about my professional experiences and our beautiful Clark Hill journey … #SimplySmarter #LMAmkt #LMA24

Thank you, Digital Marketing Institute’s Emma Prunty and Will Francis for this lovely opportunity to share my professional experiences and our beautiful Clark Hill journey.

View here.

“How do you market an organization made up of diverse individuals – in this case a global firm of over 700 legal professionals? We were delighted to have an insightful conversation with ⁠Roy Sexton⁠, head of marketing at Clark Hill, on how marketing can be a force for good, the overlap between B2B and B2C marketing, working on a company’s personal brand, considerations about putting your marketing behind social movements, and lots of tips for marketers at any stage of their career.

“Roy tells host ⁠Will Francis⁠ about his advocacy for LGBTQ+, and how his background in theater has influenced all areas of his marketing skills, including how to manage a team and approaches to using storytelling in marketing.”

Follow Roy at https://linktr.ee/roysexton

Follow Will at https://willfrancis.com/

Follow and learn with the Digital Marketing Institute at
https://digitalmarketinginstitute.com

P.S. I told our fab 2024 Legal Marketing Association – LMA International prez Kevin Iredell, an incredible and generous leader and dear friend, that I’d be “all in” and wear my shades Jack Nicholson-style from the front row at #LMA24 this week! Proud of him and this beautiful community. Thank you to his fellow leaders Kathryn Whitaker , Morgan MacLeod , Amber Bollman , Ashley Stenger , Kaitlin Heininger , Holly Amatangelo , Lisa M. Kamen , Ellie Hurley, conference committee, and countless volunteers and sponsors who have worked so hard to deliver a fantastic event this year!

Scenes from a remarkable week of education, connection, development, and joy! This Legal Marketing Association – LMA International community has given me so much in terms of professional and personal growth. Forever grateful. #AllIn #LMAmkt #LMA24 Photo album.
Original post here.

Time capsule time? Edgewise Media’s “Get A Word In” podcast … “Integrate Marketing Silos: A Conversation with Roy Sexton”

Adam Walker and Edgewise Media, thank you for this opportunity! Not sure how but I missed this video interview a few months back when it posted – I’m so sorry about that. Looking forward to watching and seeing whatever may have been on my crazy mind then. LOL. Thank you for all you do for our community!

Show description: “Join Roy Sexton, a trailblazing legal marketing strategist, as he unravels the secrets of successful content strategies. Discover how to transcend limitations, collaborate across departments, and create captivating content inspired by the latest media trends. From repurposing content to leveraging social media and account-based marketing, unlock a transformative path to reaching your target audience and achieving unparalleled brand visibility.”

9Sail’s “Legal Marketers Tell All: Where Legal Marketing is Headed + Trends to Watch” … and Wabash College covers INvolve People Outstanding 100 LGBTQ+ Executives Role Model recognition … #lmamkt #lma23

Thank you, 9Sail and Joe Giovannoli, for all you do for our profession and community. Such a gem! Thank you also to Lynn Tell for inviting me. And Todd Rengel, you are an absolute delight. Greatly enjoyed this conversation and being able to share my free-ranging perspectives on our collective future.

In this installation of 9Sail’s Legal Marketer Webinar series, Roy Sexton, Director of Marketing at Clark Hill and President of the Legal Marketing Association, and Todd Rengel, legal marketing technologist and President of Animus Rex, Inc. joined 9Sail founder and CEO Joe Giovannoli to reflect on this year in legal marketing and review trends for the future. 

Key takeaways:

  1. Market Consolidation: continuing law firm consolidation is likely, in part arising from increased competition from technologically savvy firms that have a mature infrastructure and strong, highly specialized teams already in place. Marketers should prepare to play a larger role in strategy, and to encourage their firms to be proactive rather than reactive. 
  2. Increase Team Efficiency: One of the best things marketers can do, both in budget and in use of technology, is to streamline and find the pathways that are most efficient to satisfy the needs of their internal lawyer clients and external firm clients. 
  3. Be Digital: It’s vital for legal marketers to engage in effective digital marketing, or be left behind.

View here.

Thank you, Wabash College! ✨… Roy Sexton, Director of Marketing at Clark Hill Law and 2023 International President of the Legal Marketing Association – LMA International, has been named to the INvolve People Outstanding 100 LGBTQ+ Executives Role Model List for 2023.

While at Wabash, Sexton was a double major in English and Theater, was a member of Lambda Chi Alpha Fraternity, Student Senate, The Bachelor, and the Wabash College Theater.

The Outstanding LGBTQ+ Role Model Lists supported by YouTube showcase LGBTQ+ business leaders and allies who are breaking down barriers and creating more inclusive workplaces across the world. They aim to represent the wide range of impactful and innovative work being done for inclusion across different countries, organizations, and sectors, and celebrate the diverse range of inspiring individuals who have made it their personal mission to make a difference.

INvolve is a consultancy and global network driving diversity and inclusion in business. Through the delivery of advisory solutions, awareness workshops, talent development programs, INvolve drives cultural change and creates inclusive workplaces where all individuals can succeed. They publish annual role model lists recognizing and celebrating business leaders and future leaders who are breaking down barriers at work and inspiring the next generation of diverse talent.

View original article here.

Clark Hill makes significant moves on Good2bSocial’s Social Law Firm Index

Absolutely thrilled with Clark Hill’s rankings here! Kudos to my colleagues Alexandra France and Tommy Franz for their excellent leadership and strategic stewardship of our digital presence. And thank you to Guy Alvarez and Good2bSocial for their expert analysis and commitment to our legal community.

About the study: The Social Law Firm Index is an annual study that examines how the top 200 law firms (as ranked by The American Lawyer) adopt and apply digital marketing in terms of outreach, engagement, and business development.

They measure reach, engagement, and marketing performance on platforms, including Twitter, LinkedIn, Facebook, Instagram, YouTube, and more.

The Social Law Firm Index analyzes each firm’s presence on the internet and across social media and evaluates their social media usage to extend thought leadership messages. These factors are then reduced to numerical measures, weighted, and incorporated into an algorithm to develop each firm’s rank.

Where we stacked up this year …

Overall: ranked 46 of 200 (up from 93 last year)

LinkedIn: ranked 69 (up from 88 last year)

Twitter: ranked 81 (up from 98 last year)

SEO: ranked 90 (up from 152 last year)

Instagram: first time ranking! 40

Thought leadership: ranked 74 (up from 145 last year)

Facebook: ranked 14 (down from 2 last year … but still incredibly respectable)

YouTube: first time ranking! 64

Podcast: ranked 46 (down from 38 … but also still respectable)

Woot!!

“The intersection of messaging, data analysis, and digital marketing will remain absolutely key.” Join Todd Rengel, Joe Giovannoli, and me December 6 for 9Sail’s “Where legal marketing is headed + trends to watch” webinar …and thank you, Ivan Ivanovitch and B. Riley Farber, for the lovely shout out today on LinkedIn! #lmamkt #lma23

Looking forward to joining Todd Rengel and Joe Giovannoli for what is sure to be a robust and fun conversation. Thank you, Lynn Tellefsen Stehle and 9Sail, for including me!

Register here: https://hubs.ly/Q029Dv7V0

Description: More than ever before, law firms are relying on their marketing and business development leaders and teams to navigate the complexities of client development, new client acquisition, communications and reputation management.

Although business development and marketing teams may have more opportunity to impact a firm’s bottom line, their path to success is fraught with challenges that include internal resistance to adapt and the agility needed to anticipate and respond to a client’s needs. How then can marketing teams evolve to keep pace with the increasing demands made on them by their firms and clients? How can they continuously prioritize to focus on what matters most to help their firms, and thereby, their careers?

Join Roy E. Sexton, Director of Marketing at Clark Hill and President of the International Legal Marketing Association, and Todd Rengel, legal marketing technologist and President of Animus Rex, Inc. for a provocative and timely fireside chat moderated by Joe Giovannoli, Founder and CEO of 9Sail. Together they will explore and share their insights and predictions about the direction of legal marketing, and what it will take to succeed in the digital era. Join this important and timely conversation to listen, learn and share your thoughts.

This webinar is the latest in 9Sail’s Monthly Legal Marketing Webinar Series. 9Sail webinars unite industry experts and in-house law firm leaders to deliver insights to empower the implementation of strategies to accelerate growth.

This webinar is free to attend, but space is limited. Register Now! https://hubs.ly/Q029Dv7V0

Thanks, Ivan Ivanovitch and B. Riley Farber, for the opportunity to offer my perspective here …

Original post: https://www.linkedin.com/posts/brileyfarber_b-riley-farber-executive-search-partners-activity-7132798353058250752-3BxX

B. Riley Farber Executive Search partners with numerous professional services firms to assist with the growth strategy and plans.

We asked some of our partners and we are pleased to share their views on the future of marketing and the top skills that will be in demand in the next 5 years.

Roy Sexton, Director of Marketing at Clark Hill reminds marketers on the importance of messaging and the right strategy, “The intersection of messaging, data analysis, and digital marketing will remain absolutely key. First, you need to be able to articulate your value proposition and differentiation. Always. And forever. But you then need to understand the best channels for your services and maintain the right media mix, be that social, thought leadership, targeted campaigns, etc. And ultimately you need to be able to measure what you are doing and articulate clearly that you are having the proper reach and awareness. Too many marketers just start lobbing messaging without a proper strategy. You may as well light your money on fire in the parking lot.”

Whoa! I’m a #legalmarketing “maestro”?! Thank you so much, Prolawgue! Blushing! #lmamkt #lma23

Thank you – this is so very lovely, Prolawgue, and such a nice surprise with which to start the week. I am truly honored.

“In the ever-evolving realm of law, these dynamic strategists have transcended support roles to become driving forces of success. 🚀Meet the global directory of Legal Marketing and BD maestros who shape the future of legal practice with innovative campaigns. Discover how their expertise can elevate your firm, keeping you at the forefront of the legal market’s evolution. ⚖️”

READ HERE: https://www.prolawgue.com/marketing-and-bd-maestros-in-law-the-faces-behind-leading-legal-marketing-campaigns-in-2023/#Roy_Sexton

“Roy Sexton, an accomplished marketing, communications, and strategic planning professional, brings over 25 years of experience to various sectors including consulting, healthcare, the legal industry, and college advancement. Roy’s fervor for addressing challenges, enhancing organizational culture, fostering business expansion, and contributing to long-term strategic initiatives has been a driving force throughout his career. His expertise spans diverse industries, showcasing his dedication to problem-solving and growth, making him a valuable asset in each professional endeavor.”

George Orwell, Andy Warhol, and Kurt Vonnegut were right: Digital marketing trends and best practices for professional services firms – as contributed by yours truly to Corp! Magazine #lmamkt #lma23

Thank you, Brad Kadrich and Corp! Magazine, for including my thoughts on the state of digital marketing in professional services. Thank you to Joel Epstein for placing this and to Thomas Franz for providing an extra set of eyes on this!

READ THE ORIGINAL PIECE HERE: http://print.corpmagazine.com/publication/?m=9655&i=805021&p=50&ver=html5

In an age where the digital realm reigns supreme, professional services have embraced an array of strategies to harness the power of digital marketing. These strategies, once considered novel, have now become essential for staying competitive in a fast-evolving landscape. The pandemic has shifted the landscape in how our clients express their desire for connection. The golf course, stadium box, and breakfast gathering *may* still have some place in our engagement strategies, but most want to spend their free/social time with their families now. And they expect us to meet them where they are. (Plus, clients are quite happy navigating StubHub on their own.)

Content Marketing: Elevating Thought Leadership

Content has become the cornerstone of successful digital marketing in the professional services sector. Gone are the days of mere promotional messages; clients now seek informative and valuable content that addresses their pain points. This is where content marketing steps in.

By producing in-depth case studies, insightful whitepapers, and regular blog posts, law firms position themselves as experts in their field. This not only fosters trust but also engages potential clients by addressing their legal concerns in an educational manner. Accounting firms, similarly, can provide tax planning guides, ensuring that their clients are well-informed and confident in their services.

Search Engine Optimization (SEO): Navigating the Digital Landscape

The digital world is a crowded marketplace, and standing out requires a solid understanding of search engine optimization (SEO). Professional services firms are utilizing SEO techniques to enhance their online visibility and attract relevant traffic.

Keyword research is a foundational aspect of SEO. For instance, most SEO platforms use AI to identify key phrases to optimize website content. At Clark Hill, we have seen these efforts move targeted pages into top ten search results. Furthermore, on-page optimization techniques, such as meta tags and structured data, play a pivotal role in improving a website’s search engine ranking. That said, in more B2B marketing, your clients are unlikely to pick you at random from a blind search result. They may look at those results for validation if, say, you claim to be a tech proficient organization, but they are more likely to choose you based on the helpfulness of your thought leadership and your social media engagement.

Social Media Marketing: Building Relationships

Social media platforms are powerful tools for professional services firms to build brand presence and engage with their target audiences. LinkedIn, in particular, serves as a virtual networking event for professionals across various industries. It is a social mixer that is running 24/7, and, on scale, allows you to monitor and most importantly interact with your clients and prospects asynchronously in ways convenient to you both.

It is called “social” media for a reason. Do not just go “on blast” trumpeting your own successes. Rather, engage, celebrate, and share the content of those with whom you are developing relationships. George Orwell, Andy Warhol, and Kurt Vonnegut all predicted this present moment – for better or worse. We are a people who share to be seen, so truly see others. I guarantee that the more you engage with your prospects on social in authentic (not salesy) ways, the more likely they will take you up on that offer for dinner, coffee, or a round of golf (or pickle ball!).

Imagine an accounting firm using LinkedIn to share industry insights and articles about tax regulations. This establishes their credibility and positions them as a valuable resource in the financial world. Furthermore, by creating tailored content for specific audiences, such as business owners seeking financial advice, firms can drive engagement and foster connections. And, while LinkedIn is where you likely should spend the bulk of your time, a presence on Instagram or Facebook or Threads can nicely supplement your reach and your SEO. Yes, Facebook is for “friends and family,” but they have jobs and business and service needs too!

Digital Advertising: Targeted Outreach

In the vast expanse of the internet, precision matters. Digital advertising allows professional services firms to reach their desired audience with pinpoint accuracy. Platforms like Google Ads, LinkedIn sponsorship, and account-based-marketing (e.g., digital ads on various media platforms) enable firms to create targeted ads, some that appear when specific keywords are searched and others that are pushed out to pre-identified profiles.

For instance, a law firm specializing in intellectual property might bid on keywords like “patent attorney.” When someone searches for such terms, the firm’s ad appears at the top of the search results, increasing the likelihood of attracting potential clients seeking their expertise. Effective ad copy and well-designed landing pages further enhance the success of these campaigns.

If entering this world, yes, some of this work can be handled in-house, but you may want to consider enlisting an agency, at least at first, to help you navigate these waters. Much like traditional media, working with an agency to help you refine your message, creative execution, and placement can help ensure better results. This can also help develop your in-house team on tips and tricks they might not already have at their disposal, eventually creating less dependency on an agency.

Challenges in Digital Marketing for Professional Services

As professional services firms embrace digital marketing, they encounter a unique set of challenges that require strategic navigation.

Professional services, such as legal and financial sectors, often operate under strict regulations. This can pose a challenge when crafting digital marketing content, as maintaining compliance while conveying expertise is crucial. Firms must strike a balance between showcasing their knowledge and adhering to industry regulations, ensuring their messaging remains accurate and trustworthy. Please be sure to connect with any regulatory bodies, professional associations, and your organization’s general counsel to make sure you are in keeping with ethical guidelines.

Establishing trust in the digital realm can be a daunting task. Clients seek assurance that their chosen professional services firm is reliable and competent. Beyond showcasing credentials, firms must leverage their digital presence to communicate their values, mission, and successful track record. This might involve sharing client testimonials, case studies, and success stories that resonate with potential clients.

At Clark Hill, we relaunched our brand in 2021 with the tagline “Simply Smarter.” There is a sophisticated look and feel to the brand (if we do say so ourselves!) but we wanted to supplement that with the authenticity storytelling brings. Throughout the launch and following, we have leveraged our firm values and the faces and voices of our colleagues to engage clients, prospects, and talent. Your brand is as much about attracting and retaining your talent as it is growing your client base, so be sure to reflect who you are in all of your external messaging.

Professional services often cater to specific industries or niches. Effectively targeting these niche audiences can be challenging in the vast digital landscape. However, digital marketing strategies allow firms to focus their efforts precisely where they matter most. For example, a consulting agency specializing in the technology sector can create content tailored to the unique challenges faced by tech companies, resonating with decision-makers in that industry.

Measuring the return on investment (ROI) of digital marketing efforts can be intricate. Unlike tangible products, professional services’ value is often intangible and based on expertise. Tracking the impact of digital marketing campaigns in terms of lead generation, client acquisition, and revenue can require sophisticated analytics tools. However, understanding these metrics is essential to refine strategies and allocate resources effectively.

If you have a CRM, that will help you connect the dots between marketing communications, business development, and client decision making. Even if you don’t have such a system in place, use leading measures like web hits, social media reach and engagement, open rates to articulate the impact your work is having. If you can employ a data visualization tool like Power BI to create data dashboards, all the better. Share this internally, along with links to key messages. Again, your internal audience is an extension of the marketing team, and their awareness is key to your success.

Emerging Trends in Professional Services Digital Marketing

The landscape of professional services digital marketing continues to evolve, with several emerging trends shaping its future.

Artificial intelligence and automation are revolutionizing marketing processes. Chatbots can provide instant responses to client inquiries, enhancing user experience. Additionally, AI-driven analytics offer deeper insights into consumer behavior, enabling firms to tailor their strategies more effectively.

Video content is gaining prominence as a highly engaging format. Professional services firms are using video to introduce their team, explain complex concepts, and showcase their workplace culture. This personal touch humanizes the firm and creates a stronger connection with potential clients.

For our brand launch at Clark Hill, we developed a video campaign, telling the Clark Hill story through the faces and voices of our people. We had a long-form video (about 4 minutes) and shorter snippets that we deployed on social media and through digital advertising. The first year of our brand launch our videos had 500,000 views. In the second year, we started featuring our industry teams, and those videos had 750,000 views. Additionally, in that first year, our social media channels reached 9 million and in the second year 12 million, with a 69% increase in engagement. We can only surmise that the addition of video was a big draw, on top of the thought leadership content our attorneys carefully crafted.

Personalization is no longer optional; it’s expected. Firms are leveraging data to craft personalized marketing messages and experiences. Email campaigns that address specific pain points or industry challenges resonate more with recipients, leading to higher engagement rates.

The rise of voice-activated devices is changing the way people search for information. Professional services firms are adapting their digital strategies to accommodate voice search queries, focusing on natural language and conversational content.

Best Practices for an Effective Digital Marketing Strategy

To navigate the dynamic world of digital marketing successfully, professional services firms should follow these best practices:

Define specific goals, whether it’s increasing lead generation, expanding brand awareness, or improving client retention. Clear objectives guide your strategies and provide a measurable framework for success.

Clients go through distinct stages before making a decision. Create content that caters to each stage, from awareness and consideration to decision-making, ensuring you’re addressing their needs effectively.

Data-driven decisions yield better results. Regularly analyze metrics such as website traffic, engagement rates, and conversion rates to understand what’s working and what needs adjustment.

The digital landscape is ever-changing. Stay updated with industry trends, algorithm updates, and new technologies. Adapt your strategies accordingly to maintain a competitive edge.

Future Outlook of Professional Services Digital Marketing

As we look ahead, the role of digital marketing in professional services is poised to expand even further. The rapid evolution of technology, coupled with changing consumer behavior, will drive innovation in strategies and tools. Firms that embrace agility and stay committed to providing value through their digital channels will undoubtedly thrive in this dynamic environment.

Digital marketing has transformed the way professional services firms connect with their audience. From content marketing to SEO, social media engagement to digital advertising campaigns, these strategies are redefining how expertise is showcased and services are offered. Despite challenges, firms that master the art of digital marketing will not only survive but also excel in an increasingly digital world.

(And, yes, true confessional: I used AI to help me craft this article, shaping the outline and refining the piece for persuasiveness and conciseness. Boom! Thank you, R2-D2, Hal, and Robbie the Robot for your trailblazing.)

“Branding is more than just a logo, color choices, or font. Branding is about the experience.” Lawbrokr’s Law & Marketing Magazine #lmamkt #lma23

Thank you, Daniel Steinberg and Lawbrokr., for this very thoughtful piece on legal marketing and optimal strategic mix: “Law & Marketing Magazine.” Available to download here: https://www.lawbrokr.com/guides-and-resources

It’s a great roadmap for anyone assessing their efforts, building out a team, and detailing out short and long term plans. Very nicely done. And thanks for including this quote from yours truly:

“Branding is more than just a logo, color choices, or font. Branding is about the experience. And law firms are a collection of experiences: client, attorney, staff, talent acquisition, collaboration, and work product. Your clients are making an investment in you, so invest in them by clearly articulating what makes you unique and needed.”

Tara Alexandra Kachaturoff and I chat about all things legal marketing on the Michigan Entrepreneur tv show … #lmamkt

Thank you, Tara Alexandra Kachaturoff for having me on Michigan Entrepreneur as your guest. You can watch the recording here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q5RuJFyMXkE

We speak at length about Clark Hill Law, Legal Marketing Association – LMA International, legal marketing , social media , digital marketing , lawyers, thought leadership, media relations, podcasts, technology, and trends.

Shout outs abound, including Wabash College, Deloitte, The Ohio State University, UM-Flint School of Management, Trott Law, Kerr Russell, Beaumont Health, JD Supra, Tanner Friedman, Mary Zatina, Susan Ahern, Megan McKeon, Alex France, Joel Epstein, Dave Trott, Robert Hoban, Sander Zagzebski, and …. cannabis.

Thank you to Carrie LeZotte and Steve Rota as well for their exceptional work on the production of this show.

Special thank you to Tanner Friedman’s Joel Epstein for arranging this fun opportunity. Joel, you are such a rock star and we all love working with you and are grateful for your hustle and your heart. Tara and I are both in the Joel fan club for sure!